Tokugawa Corporate Forums

Hi everyone! Thanks so much to your admin for validating my account.

My name is Diego again and over the last years I've been an active dumper volunteer with several gaming preservation groups like Redump.org, No-Intro or TOSEC (Dreamcast especifically). During this period, a place was born bringing members from all these places (as well as other preservationist iniciatives) under one united community, called VideoGame Preservation Collective.

Thanks to this united force, we've been able over the last years to fully document and compile thousands of titles from several platforms leading to it's edge in terms of fullset completation. Biggest contributions came from Redump.org members, whose main objetive is disc media preservation. From demos/samples/taikenbans to retail games/special editions or software applications/multimedia, my partners have made big efforts to make sure no data was lost, and the mission continues today, with a new target for 2020, FM Towns.

In the last years, rescuing japanese stuff have become one of our main obsessions and this has lead my partners to compile thousands of japanese titles and releases from different platforms such as Panasonic 3DO, Sega Saturn, Sony Playstation 1, PC Engine CD, Nintendo GameCube/Wii/WiiU, Microsoft Xbox...
As well as other niche platforms like Bandai Playdia, Sega MegaCD, Neo Geo CD or Philips CD-i.

Some of these platforms are really close to it's completation while other will still need lot of support to stand up (yes, I talk about Bandai Playdia xd). Still, thanks to all the people that have worked there asses so hard over these years, I can assure most data has been dumped, documented and saved than the amount of data that could get lost in time. Thanks so much for each single effort you have done all this time.

Starting january 2019, we were finally able to get closer to another main goal as the PC-FX set from Japan got nearly finished (at least all retail games have been dumped), and the PC Engine CD sets from USA and Japan are really close to be completed.

For this reason, my partners have put their eyes on FM Towns. FM Towns has become in the last years in one of the most expensive platforms to buy games. Seems that being a niche platform has made this platform to be really valuable among sellers.

One of the biggest problems with FM Towns is not only it's price, but the state of preservation: Neither projects like TOSEC or TruRip have made any real progress trying to backup these games. We don't have to start from the scratch, but still, there's lot of stuff missing! Redump.org seeks to provide qualified dumps for the CD-Rom media videogames from this platform, while the floppies are being handle by our community VGPC, as we are pushing to convince people to dump with Kyroflux.

This is what has been dumped so far from CD-Roms on Redump:

http://redump.org/discs/system/fmt/

(Mind that dumpers are not forced to share their dumps so, we have a list of dumps added to the database that we actually lack the proper game dump, we call them MIAs (Missing in Action))

http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title=Fujitsu_FM-Towns_MIA


This is the list of games needed (you have other lists inside for missing applications/multimedia/educational discs that accept too):

http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title= ... sing_Games

And that's the reason we are calling Tokugawa, to ask if any of you could help us in this task.

In the last years, we saw how Neo Kobe finally made free their stuff on Archive.org, and as much as we apreciated it, we saw some complains about the dumps. Lot of them comes from unknowns source and others seem to not work. Maybe is a floppy problem or maybe is the disc dump, but this time, we are trying to provide the community with verified data for both of them.

If you own any of these games: For dumping, especial hardware is required, a series of compatible Plextor CD-Rom writers that we can provide you if needed. Dumping is extremly simple thanks to our open source tool, DICUI, that will automatize the process and is really simple to use.

If you don't own any of them: Any donation or information about where could we find help will help us a lot.

Right now, believe me when I say we were lucky. Not only amazing help is coming from my country (Spain) in form of some really expensive game dumps, from members who have been already around you in this forum. After posting in different communities like Reddit Emulation or FM Towns Club in Facebook, we have seen different collectors and volunteers around the world seeking to help us, including legendary Higan developer and SNES preservationist, Byuu, who has told us about his interest on checking FM Towns emulation and giving some help from Japan as he is now living there.

Meanwhile, some of my partners in VGPC, like Wiggy2k, who joined here yesterday with me, have been spending a LOT of money to keep catching stuff from Japan. So, as you can see, this time we are going serious.

Thanks for your atention, and please, whatever you need to ask, go ahead, thank you!

PD. In case you are interested in joining us, this is our Discord community (mind that we don't allow rom sharing or talking about it there for safety reasons):

https://discord.gg/AHTfxQV

Hi and welcome.

Out of curiosity, I suppose the PCE set is still good old ISO? Has there been any progress these past years on a new dump format?

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NECstasy | Kaminarimon HES Music Archive | VGMRips YM2608 Archive | YouTube Channel

Split 2352 bytes/sector tracks. Can be merged into a single bin/img, if needed.

One game you are missing from your list is the FM-Towns version of the puzzle game "Darwin's Dilemma" (which I cannot find anywhere except one person mentioned having it in another forum and which I requested in a post above)

Same old imperfect format then. Nothing like the GPS/GDemu analog redumping project. Too bad this one is taking forever, probably because it's too expensive.

_________________
NECstasy | Kaminarimon HES Music Archive | VGMRips YM2608 Archive | YouTube Channel

Imperfect how?
also...

GPS/GDemu analog redumping project ? details?

What do you mean (GDemu = dreamcast ODE? how is it connected with PCE?) and what don't you exactly like? Lack of subs? It is possible to dump the subs in a reproducable ('dattable') way, but not many people want to waste hours per disc, sadly. Or leadin/first pregap area/leadout? We've tried to dump certain discs 'a better way' as a proof-of-concept (TOC from leadin + user area in 2448 bytes/sector mode + leadout) and there was even a subproject on the now-defunct rawdump.net site, but it had zero support from emu authors and absolutely nobody was interested in it.

I hope you answer Fireball because your comment made no sense. :/

"Too bad this one is taking forever, probably because it's too expensive" --> As much as I respect GPS and Joseph Redon, he's search for perfect preservation will lead to pure nonsense when he face the reality that can't redump the work Redump.org has been doing for years with a massively expensive device just to obtain the same useless "Raw" dumps that the Rawdump group tried. This was already discussed with Byuu too in his report about CD-Roms and the ideas that came out from that are being added into the DiscImageChef project, that it's in development right now.

We are still struggling with the Kyroflux situation, when the developers are just putting stones in the way of videogaming preservationist to obtain one single unit and the license for the software tools. Adding another "perfect" device to the ecuation will just lead to discs getting lost forever if that means closed source/expensive prices/selective licenses for everyone trying to help.

Most of the last dumps we are getting comes from UK, Spain and Finland users, not Japan, and Joseph is still denying colaboration after offering it to him.

Joseph being a close friend from 30 years, I don't want this forum to become a ranting place against him (he got his share of flak already). Many people accused him of sitting on a private stash -- but his preservation project is all about preserving against extinction, not distributing en masse. After all, you can't blame the BFI for not sharing on Blu-ray everything they have preserved.

Now don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the reality of retrogaming in general is to play those games, not watch them behind a glass in a museum with limited access. But Joseph's perspective is different and I respect that. I somehow hoped his CD redump effort (which has been ongoing for years) would ultimately lead to affordable solutions that could be shared to the public, but I suppose this was unrealistic.

I remember when Byuu worked his ass off to invent a successor to SPC, until he slowly realized the project was futile because nobody would redump the entire Super Famicom library for a "marginally" better music format. I suppose it's the same thing with the PC Engine, ISO dumps work good enough in emulators, linkers etc, and that's fine for most people (me included).

Anyway, all the best to the VGPC.

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NECstasy | Kaminarimon HES Music Archive | VGMRips YM2608 Archive | YouTube Channel

If Joseph ever decides to start dumping CDs, it will be probably via this thing: https://www.domesday86.com/?page_id=978

But it will be a completely different story, since it requires a very heavy and expensive equipment. And we want to preserve the 'user area' data, at least, without cut/misread audio tracks and with proper gaps.


Maybe these are (were?) the test dumps or something, because they don't do any CD dumping and are actively looking for the 'proper' methods, according to the Joseph himself.

From my neophyte perspective, both projects are valid and diversity is good.

This thread made me loosely research for a bit and I came across these two videos :
https://youtu.be/H7X1ueD_tls
https://youtu.be/sUBNUXnVkJM
Which I enjoyed a lot.

All differences aside, it casts a cruel light on the lack of government funding in this direction, which is sad.

absolutely agree, all forms of preservation are good.
I've just ordered a boat load of FMT discs to dump for Redump and am bidding on more.

the most interesting thing is the amount of revisions i am identifying, for discs that must have had limited print runs there sure are a lot of revisions.

Excuse me but this isn't the point of my comment. This is not what I'm complaining about, VGPC administrators as well and some of the users (including me), and Redon, already made their point clear about this and both not only respected each point of view, but promissed to colaborate with each other if the chance was found in the future.

My criticism comes from this: I offered Redon our help to create some kind of colaboration for FM Towns as I've been finding a lot of users around the world able to provide FM Towns stuff that is going extremly expensive. No terms where discussed, I only advertised him that I was able to find lot of help for all of us and that this was finally a good chance to help both projects (VGPC platform/Redump and GPS).

After being really educated with him and receiving his main points about FM Towns situation, he told me he would share more extended thoughts in a few days (he was writing on the phone so I kindly told him I would wait patiently for respect as talking on the phone is not the best way to discuss this)... That was weeks ago. I find that really impolite and I find hard to offer help to someone that treats me like that and has expressed he doesn't see enough value in our work, while we have users trying to put their best to scan artwork using the GPS standards.

And yet, I was there to provide whatever help I could for GPS and Redon. As I said, my comment explains a situation between Redon and me, and my perception about his behaviour, which has not been fortunate. Not only for not answering me in weeks (I guess he just didn't care too much about my offering), but because of this:

"Same old imperfect format then. Nothing like the GPS/GDemu analog redumping project"

Redon has told me he won't start caring about the FM Towns discs situation until a method that acomplish his own standards is developed. However, while I try to push FM Towns floppy dumping with Kyroflux, I get word from an important finnish videogame museum worker that is helping us, that Kyroflux sellers are not only limiting Kyroflux units and making lot of requirements to justify selling a unit, but more money for licenses to use the software tools for it.

If this situation happens again with a new dumper solution for CD-Roms pushed by Redon, you can't expect me to not feel really angry. We depend on the help of casual users and rare collectors to be able to save everything we can and we are not only asking them to spend a lot of money on these devices, but putting rocks and rocks in their way to obtain them. Now tell them after all this, that at the end of the day... No content delivered by them will see the light of the day behind the doors of GPS.

I hope my comments explain well enough to understand I dont have a problem with Redon's methods or the way he handles videogaming preservation, but the ethics behind all it. Is hard to believe, I pretty much feel that Redon would leave some discs to get lose forever if they aren't saved his own way.

If you still wonder why I feel so hurt, is because of users like Wiggy2K, who have been spending hundreds of pounds to rescue japanese discs with zero appreciation or benefit, just for the sake of saving these discs. Users like him are the reasons why I'm so passionate to move around asking out loud for help. And that was the first thing I told Redon after reaching him.

With that said:

http://redump.org/discs/system/fmt/regi ... /dir/desc/

All our last dumps. We hope we can find more help from this community!

You seem to believe that the GPS is Joseph's daily job. It's far from it. He's working around the globe for an infamous automotive company which controversial CEO has made the news these past months, and maybe now you can better understand why he's not (and cannot be) 100% committed to his retrogaming projects.

For years, dozens of our forum members have also been spending a lot of cash and sharing their dumps without any particular benefit or celebration either. Yet you don't see us getting angry as you are. I hope you didn't register here just to vent about your personal bitterness, because if that's the case you came to the wrong place. We don't want that sort of negative behaviour. We don't make any politics, we are not even an organization. We share and we help when we can.

That's what we've been doing for almost 20 years, and we'll continue doing just that. Now let's get back on topic.

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NECstasy | Kaminarimon HES Music Archive | VGMRips YM2608 Archive | YouTube Channel

Once again: 1) Redon doesn't really do any CD dumps yet (maybe there were test dumps, but they don't have any method good enough for them); 2) He/they will be probably doing them using something like Domesday Duplicator, this method requires buying the device itself and some LD player with CD reading support. Obviously, his dumps won't be public and other forum members will unlikely to ever bother with such a complicated process; 3) We're just trying to get people to dump their own discs at home using some stricter rules to get a good and a reproduceable dump of every FMT disc available (PC88/PC98/DOSV/WIN discs are also welcome, ofc, as well as those few doujin X68000 CDs) without audio data shifts, cuts and errors and without missing gaps, because the ones in Neo Kobe's collection are full of these issues. Also, many FMT discs have multiple revisions, it is important to try to document and preserve as many of them as possible (and Neo Kobe doesn't know/care about revisions at all).